tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26221967.post5138236308902548383..comments2023-10-04T02:23:54.100+11:00Comments on emzeegee and the hungry three: Of Fathers and Sonsemzeegee & the hungry threehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05157103839748631293noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26221967.post-28027908960602127672008-09-24T22:44:00.000+10:002008-09-24T22:44:00.000+10:00Cameron,Leave it to you to put it all into perspec...Cameron,<BR/><BR/>Leave it to you to put it all into perspective...and I seem to recall having rather a lot of very late night conversations about stuff (although never about anything as cerebral as this, and mostly via email. )<BR/><BR/>As for the comment about David and I - thank you, that means a lot. I'm guessing my parents paid you for that one (ha!) because they are always reminding us that we should have ANOTHER trio.<BR/><BR/>Once I stop laughing hysterically, I eventually tell them that THEIR chances are 'less than zero." <BR/><BR/>...and it would seem that you and yours are catching up in the procreation stakes. :)<BR/><BR/>Memzeegee & the hungry threehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05157103839748631293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26221967.post-55153660959367126142008-09-24T01:26:00.000+10:002008-09-24T01:26:00.000+10:00I think we could discuss the finer points of this ...I think we could discuss the finer points of this topic until the wee hours of the morning and not come close to untangling the thicket of issues. Different doctors, even mainstream religions have radically different takes.<BR/><BR/>I think the Catholics are big into 'not interfering', while Orthodox Jews see IVF as a tool for fulfilling the commandment to 'be fruitful and multiply'.<BR/><BR/>As for 'doing harm', that mingles with a number of theological beliefs about what is and is not life, and what constitutes harm. For some reason I'm not worried about humans becoming like the bananas in the grocery store due to the popularity of IVF.<BR/><BR/>To segue from the abstract to the concrete, I think you can sleep peacefully at night about the long-term consequences of your actions - you and David are some of the best people I know and I figure the more children you two can add to the world, the better the world will be for it, in all the ways that really matter.Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06470039951039218265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26221967.post-32398658826737906772008-09-23T19:06:00.000+10:002008-09-23T19:06:00.000+10:00Cam and Dani,I think you both have valid points......Cam and Dani,<BR/><BR/>I think you both have valid points...and while my own religion definitely promotes going forth and multiplying, I don't think that commandment considered IVF! *grin* <BR/><BR/>Similarly I know of several religious people who will not use IVF because they feel it is interfering with "God's Will" ... so for them the importance of not interfering overrides the importance of procreating. <BR/><BR/>Hippocratic oath tells our doctors to "first do no harm" - so are the doctors performing these procedures also committing some sort of ethical crime? Is not knowing what the future holds a good enough basis for forging ahead? Then again, going ahead without knowing the outcome is the central point behind experimentation.<BR/><BR/>Oh boy, this could go on forever!<BR/><BR/>Memzeegee & the hungry threehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05157103839748631293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26221967.post-19042919514260210632008-09-23T12:35:00.000+10:002008-09-23T12:35:00.000+10:00Through IVF and FET, my two boys were conceived at...Through IVF and FET, my two boys were conceived at the same time but born two years apart. Even though I am insanely grateful for assisted reproductive technology, I have a hard time reconciling in my head the miraculous journey they took in their embryonic stage. I am especially haunted by the fact that my younger son was cryopreserved for 26 months, and I wonder--when the time comes--how I will help him make sense of that. <BR/><BR/>I haven't thought about the ramifications of passing down an IF mutation, but here's my take: if mankind was endowed with the intellectual capacity to correct, or circumvent, human genetics, then it was all meant to be. For good or bad, our children and future generations increasingly will depend on medical intervention to lead more fulfilling lives. A family history of infertility will be akin to inheriting mom's weak eyes, dad's heart disease and bad knees, and will likewise be managed medically.Danihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06755181539262162599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26221967.post-39380571993878050512008-09-22T12:12:00.000+10:002008-09-22T12:12:00.000+10:00Let me play devil's advocate to your hypothetical ...Let me play devil's advocate to your hypothetical arguments. If it were possible to stop the mutations responsible for a lack of fertility dead in their tracks, they would have been stopped dead in their tracks long before both of you had been afflicted with them.<BR/><BR/>Also, natural suggestion makes no judgements about why certain genes survive and certain individuals contribute to the gene pool. Some people may have hyperactive sperm, or a friendly environment in utero, and their genes will have an easy time propagating. Some people may not have these traits, but blessed with the good fortune and ability to be successful enough to afford IVF and will propagate their genes. Who are we to say that one set of circumstances is more valid than another?<BR/><BR/>To make a religious argument, the first commandment that humans were given in Genesis was to 'be fruitful and multiply'. Given that, would IVF not be the ultimate in un-selfish acts?Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06470039951039218265noreply@blogger.com